The "Prove God" Scam


    I hang out on IRC (DALnet, #ChristianDebate, among others) as "FrSam".  About once every other week, some young Atheist, full of Evangelical Sound and Fury, comes tripping into the chat room and invites everyone to "Prove God"!!!!

    In most of the "christian" rooms, this is enough to get the Fun_DUH-mentalists into a foaming fury of Verse-posting.  They produce various arguments (some bad, others worse), which the graduate of the Little Atheists' School proceeds to reject, one after the other.

    After a few of these had gone by  me, I started reflecting on just what was going on.  It's a rhetorical trick -- not an honest question/challenge.

    The (unannounced) premises of this scame are:

I)       God can be proved logically.

       Roman Catholic Scholastic Theology claims to be able to do this -- the results vary between unsatisfactory and ludicrous.  Fun_DUH_mentalists are nowhere as sophisticated logically as Jesuits, so they do an even worse job at handling this premise.

       God is not a logical proposition.  God is not a subject to be scrutinized scientifically and subjected to empirical proof.

       Any positive statement about God is woefully inadequate, and thus, effectively, false.  We can say with confidence what God is _NOT_. but beyond the simple affirmation "God IS!" we are skating on very thin ice indeed.

    The graduate of the Little Atheists' School, and the Protestant alike, being children of the Enlightenement, demand and believe that all things are subject to logical examination and proof.  This is hubris -- and dangerous hubris, as the sequelae of the French and Russian Revolutions clearly demonstrate -- paraniod schizophrenia is relentlessly logical -- and boundlessly and insanely cruel.

       God is the Ground of Being -- upon Whom all of reality depends.  He is not a created thing, has no mass or wavelength, displaces no space, takes no time.  Faith is the experience of God.  From this experience flows visualization, ideation, and conviction -- the will to do.

       That "faith" which pretends to be intellectual assent to a series of propositions is fatally weak.  Undermining any of the propositons or premises leaves no basis for that sort of faith, and the devotee wanders in a nihilist empty hell, until another set of propositions comes waltzing along.  The intellect is very good at putting simple blocks together, but miserable at evaluating values.

       The intellect likes simple decisions -- "Yes" or "No";  Black or White; One or Zero.  The world, however, comes in infinite shades of grey -- as well as every color from infrared to ultraviolet.

       Linear, bi-valent logic is useful for very simple problems, or very restricted universes of discourse (same thing :), but in the larger universe, the only iron-clad "proofs" that logic provides are trivial.


II)      You have to prove God by _MY_ rules.

       This one is such an obvious shuck, that I don't think I need to spend too much verbiage on it.  It is relatively easy to define a set of axioms and propositions that leave one's rhetorical opponent bound hand & foot -- and with a metaphorical sock in their mouth.

 . . . and the truly sneaky and underhanded premise:

III)      You need to prove God to _MY_ satisfaction.

       This is, in actuality, totally mendacious.   Whatever argument. "fact", or supposition the Fundie brings up, the Evangelical Atheist simply denies it.  The Fundy then goes a little farther -- and the atheist denies.

       This continues ad nauseam, until the Fundy starts foaming at the mouth, or gives up in despair.  It is also nasty and a lie -- there is _NO_ argument or fact which the atheist will ever accept, under any circumstances.  So the whole game is calculated to bait and infuriate Fundies.  It is a shame that so many of them are so poorly educated that they bite on the hook.

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       Whenever one of these Evangelical Atheists tries that on me, I reply that I will be happy to try to prove God, if he/she/it will be willing to disprove God.   This usually gets me a lecture about "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" (a Carl Sagan quote, IIRC), to which I reply that atheism, in historical terms,  is an extraordinary claim, putting the ball back in their court.

       I have even been able to get certain individuals to do a creditable imitation of a Foamin' Fundy -- sometime cursing and swearing and going on like a madman.  I consider it a good payback for the willful harassment they inflict on intellectually defenseless Fundies.

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       God is an experience, not a proposition -- some people have the experience, some do not.  For those who do not, the agnostic (I know not) position is the only intellectually respectible position to hold.  The atheist, like the believer, makes  a flat-out metaphysical statement about God -- each on the basis of no provable rational basis.

       The experience of God makes a change -- we say "a change of heart", to distingiush it from a change of mind -- and inward, intuitive, and emotional change.  This is "metanoia"  in Greek -- the transforming experience of the Gospel, of the Eucharist.

    There are various verbal expressions if the Faith -- but the only true and authentic expression is in the depth of the human heart.



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